The Cleaning Products You Use, Part 2 ..or "1986, When Everything Changed"

[Jim Pemberton]

I appreciate all of the comments under the "Cleaning Products You Use, Part 1" Thread.

It seems that most all of us were prespraying carpet with pH 11 or 12 products, hosing down stinky carpets with cationic based quats, and were blissfully unaware of what would happen next.

At the risk writing yet another epic, suffice to say that the introduction of stain resistant carpet, especially the heavily promoted Stainmaster product by DuPont, in 1986 created a massive change in our industry.

Through the work of some politically adept and charismatic manufacturing industry ambassadors, we were told at industry events and in trade journals that we had to change everything we did, and there were dark, if vaguely worded, warnings of the consequences for not following these new rules:

Products had to have a pH of "less than 10" (more on this later)
Cleaning temperatures had to be no more than 150 degrees
Deodorizers could not be cationic
Deodorizers could not be applied after cleaning, but instead before
Protectors had to be "approved"
Cleaners needed to be certified

How did those who were present when "the asteroid hit" respond?

 

[Mark Saiger]

For us, it seems the new carpet was slow to arrive in the North but at this point, I was heavily involved as a Band director...and had just sold my carpet cleaning business.

But I need to get together with my family via phone to have another discussion.

I think it was at that point we were concerned about it, but also were all saying "What?!"

I do kind of remember when reapplication of Scotch Guard came out...

Our family did purse education and certification... But after so many changes, we gave up certifications.

Most of the family was at Master Status... But that really didn't matter to our clientele... But more for us. As an education family we respected the educational and knowledge part, but we felt, just because you changed what it took to be certified, didn't take away our already learned knowledge.

But on the chemistry side, I will find this out...

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I appreciate all of the comments under the "Cleaning Products You Use, Part 1" Thread.

It seems that most all of us were prespraying carpet with pH 11 or 12 products, hosing down stinky carpets with cationic based quats, and were blissfully unaware of what would happen next.

At the risk writing yet another epic, suffice to say that the introduction of stain resistant carpet, especially the heavily promoted Stainmaster product by DuPont, in 1986 created a massive change in our industry.

Through the work of some politically adept and charismatic manufacturing industry ambassadors, we were told at industry events and in trade journals that we had to change everything we did, and there were dark, if vaguely worded, warnings of the consequences for not following these new rules:

Products had to have a pH of "less than 10" (more on this later)
Cleaning temperatures had to be no more than 150 degrees
Deodorizers could not be cationic
Deodorizers could not be applied after cleaning, but instead before
Protectors had to be "approved"
Cleaners needed to be certified

How did those who were present when "the asteroid hit" respond?

A perfect storm for us, two years into our association with Bane Clene.

 

[Jimmy L]

Yeah the rules changed to suit the chem makers so they could flood the market with " Miracle" chems.
I see the more experienced carpet cleaners going back to a more simpler time leaving the marketing BS behind. Using those hi ph chems especially in apartments or restuarants and even residential because they work. Look at saiger's sauce what ph is that? Acid rinse bla bla bla. I can see it in some circumstances but the majority.....no.

Sometimes the old way is better don't over think it because it's only a 1/2 of plastic fiber.

 

[Dennis99]

I started out with a Chem-Dry franchise back in 1990 and if I remember right their pre-spray then was Formula 5 and was sold as safe on "5th Generation" carpets. Now there was some marketing BS.

 

[Bob Pruitt]

We were on the West Coast. We kept on using the same products and cleaning the way we always had.
The Trade Associations had little input into my business but I took some classes because I enjoyed doing that...not that I can remember learning anything that actually made us money in those classes. I sent a couple of employees to get certified but both of them didn't last long with us and it was expensive - fee for the class and another fee to test.I don't think there was a single thing taught at the Certification classes that I didn't already teach. Certification felt like an expensive scam.

The Chemicals we bought were the same but the chem makers added Safe for StainMaster Carpets and other marketing words...maybe they buffered the chemicals... I don't know. We had joined the SCT early on and had a big binder that was added to/mailed monthly from Ed York.
That was a serious group for it's time and the information was helpful.

 

[Mikey P]

I vaguely recall a tech meetint at Coit where the manager said something about this.
It may have been around the time where the company changed product lines.

I had a Hydro-Force by then but still no vacuum or a scrubber.


We were told to respond to inquiries with a "Yes, our Cleaning solutions are compliant"..

 

[BIG WOOD]

I appreciate all of the comments under the "Cleaning Products You Use, Part 1" Thread.

It seems that most all of us were prespraying carpet with pH 11 or 12 products, hosing down stinky carpets with cationic based quats, and were blissfully unaware of what would happen next.

At the risk writing yet another epic, suffice to say that the introduction of stain resistant carpet, especially the heavily promoted Stainmaster product by DuPont, in 1986 created a massive change in our industry.

Through the work of some politically adept and charismatic manufacturing industry ambassadors, we were told at industry events and in trade journals that we had to change everything we did, and there were dark, if vaguely worded, warnings of the consequences for not following these new rules:

Products had to have a pH of "less than 10" (more on this later)
Cleaning temperatures had to be no more than 150 degrees
Deodorizers could not be cationic
Deodorizers could not be applied after cleaning, but instead before
Protectors had to be "approved"
Cleaners needed to be certified

How did those who were present when "the asteroid hit" respond?

Are you saying that Shaw or Mohawk or both opened their wallets and paid prochem, chenspec, etc. to adjust their Chems and directions for how to clean so the carpet would wear out faster????

It makes sense to me

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Are you saying that Shaw or Mohawk or both opened their wallets and paid prochem, chenspec, etc. to adjust their Chems and directions for how to clean so the carpet would wear out faster????
It makes sense to me

Not at all Matt.

The fiber producers at the time (each have sold the divisions and aren't directly involved as they were then) were DuPont, Monsanto, and Allied. They directed the need to create cleaning agents that wouldn't harm the stain resistant coating.

What we ended up with at first was less than effective ( to say it kindly ), what we settled on later just didn't damage it as much, but did damage the stain resistant materials more than most realized. More on that later.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

One great Bane memory is the series of mill tours they arranged.

J&J in Dalton specialized in commercial and high end modules, and their tour (86) included R&D trends way ahead of most others.

Lees in Virginia, then the world's largest carpet manufacturing plant, was screen printing custom modules, among other innovative ideas. I still remember an engineer in our small group giving me a strong push toward clear rinsing.

We also toured DuPont's nylon plant in DE and Monsanto's in AL.

Several tours on Shaw's R&D in the Cindy Sayre era, always fun.

Good memories!

 

[Cleanworks]

In 1987 I was certiified as a DuPont technician which meant I was qualified to clean ans apply DuPont Teflon protector. I actually received several jobs from the DuPont referral service to try and remove stains from their Stainmaster carpet. I remember one distinctly, the customer had a Kool aid stain that they had tried to clean and had smeared everywhere. We were unable to remove it completely and DuPont replaced all the carpet on the whole lower floor of the house.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Masterseries products initially until it all settled out. Since then Prochem's Axiom line

 

[SamIam]

Chemspec kill odor plus was a good product better then regular kill odor.

Better then spring fresh duo.

We were a porty company there was never an issue with heat.

But citric acid saved are butts a few times

 

[Mikey P]

your training program sucked.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

In retrospect, the "experts" didn't get it.

The 150 degree upper limit was based on tests done of temperatures left on the fiber surface, not what read on the temperature gauge. Few machines can keep that sort of temperature on the fiber surface unless it's kept under constant flow with a rotary jet extractor.

The first products that were nearly neutral and included stain resist chemistry to "replenish" the fibers stain resistance didn't clean well and foamed terribly.

The later compromises of "less than 10" provided better cleaning, but if you tested the stain resistance on the fibers afterward, it was damaged....

So what it came down to is that we weren't "wiping the stain resistance out" at 11 or 12, but we were fooling ourselves that our "less than 10" products were "Stain Resist Safe".

Not that it mattered, traffic wiped it out worse....

More to come.

 

[FB7777]

Show up on time, in uniform, and provide superior results with a smile and personality


The rest is just noise



And Blane Crene was FOS

 

[Mikey P]

In uniform?


naw..

The right smile and conversationalist skills will never give the lady a chance to notice what the hell you have on.


Assuming you have pants and a clean shirt with sleeves on..

 

[FB7777]

May work for the owner, but I still believe employees can use the extra symbol of competence that at least a Company Tshirt and Jacket provides

 

[Mikey P]

I'm blessed with lady killers...

 

[Onfire_02_01]

How about the "Naked Man" from how I met your mother?

 

[FB7777]

Women love a man in uniform

 

[hogjowl]

They want us to clean well and not be an ax killer.

They can overlook a 10 gallon cowboy hat.

 

[Mikey P]

Someday ill have the balk ttyl wrar itb til work

 

[dgardner]

Someday ill have the balk ttyl wrar itb til work

I must be tired......

 

[SamIam]

your training program sucked.

Ya 3 day no pay ride alongs.

I won't let my helpers today touch a wand for a month.

But hell most of you guys would go over the 5 rooms in 15 minutes and barely wet it.

 

[BIG WOOD]

In uniform?


naw..

The right smile and conversationalist skills will never give the lady a chance to notice what the hell you have on.


Assuming you have pants and a clean shirt with sleeves on..

I disagree

For several years, I would wear a tucked in lettered t-shirt, some ball cap, blue jeans and whatever shoes fit the best.

I got a 180 degree turn around in the way people looked at me and talked to me when I brushed my hair or wore a black business logo'd hat, tucked in collared sowed logo shirt, and khakis with black shoes or boots.
It was amazing how much easier it was approach people when I wanted pass out cards, do cold calls on businesses or the 5around on houses, or just shake some hands at the local restaurant.

I'm sure it's different over here than it is in SantaCruz, just because California should be another country in the way the economy and public are, so take my opinion like a grain of salt on a wound.

 

[rick imby]

I disagree

For several years, I would wear a tucked in lettered t-shirt, some ball cap, blue jeans and whatever shoes fit the best.

I got a 180 degree turn around in the way people looked at me and talked to me when I brushed my hair or wore a black business logo'd hat, tucked in collared sowed logo shirt, and khakis with black shoes or boots.
It was amazing how much easier it was approach people when I wanted pass out cards, do cold calls on businesses or the 5around on houses, or just shake some hands at the local restaurant.

I'm sure it's different over here than it is in SantaCruz, just because California should be another country in the way the economy and public are, so take my opinion like a grain of salt on a wound.

You have hair left? Most have pulled theirs all out...

 

[Jimmy L]

Women loved my tight pants

 

[Bob Pruitt]

We fit into our Customer's lives as their Carpet Cleaner. I think having a logo on a golf shirt or uniform shirt lets helps Clients make that connection in a stronger way...brain wiring. We aren't their friend, family member or work associate... though we may be friendly and enjoy each others company. Where we fit into their brain catalog of people in their lives is as their Carpet Cleaner... and that's why we get repeat calls and referrals from them.
Yes smile and be friendly...even Mikey charming for better sales and building a trusting Client/Carpet Cleaner relationship.

 

[SamIam]

This thread could have a knock off thread which chemical manufacturer was most copied by a competitor.

How many times I got a call "Were starting a line of chemicals and we have a powder thats just as good as.......

Fill in the blank!