EDDM and John Braun

[Shane Deubell]

I actually Google'd "Marcating" thinking you learned a new word.


I'm just giddy in anticipation to find out what Kip, Eyeball, Torrey and Fencepost are going to be selling..

Far as i can see information from 1998....


LOL i also googled marcating, what an idiot i am .

 

[Mikey P]

I really thought Marty lipped his way through one of them fancy books Yeadon is always talking about.

 

[Mikey P]

John B..

What are you finding the average return to be among yourself and the clients you mentor* (*if that's the proper term)

Would you say early spring and late summer are the best time to mail out?

Can we see some ad copy of the most successful ads to took part in?

% off or buy one get one?

3rd time is the charm?

Do you have a best day of the week to hit the boxes theory?

Do you suggest to Mom and Pops to look much bigger than they actually are to gain the trust of those skeptical to to hire fly by nights?

Does Stanley do EDDM? I can't recall the last time I got anything by a Val Pak from a CC'r in the mail.

 

[johnbraun]

John B..

What are you finding the average return to be among yourself and the clients you mentor* (*if that's the proper term)

Would you say early spring and late summer are the best time to mail out?

Can we see some ad copy of the most successful ads to took part in?

% off or buy one get one?

3rd time is the charm?

Do you have a best day of the week to hit the boxes theory?

Do you suggest to Mom and Pops to look much bigger than they actually are to gain the trust of those skeptical to to hire fly by nights?

Does Stanley do EDDM? I can't recall the last time I got anything by a Val Pak from a CC'r in the mail.

Average return? It does vary depending on the offer, time of year, etc. But an average of 4 to 1 return I'd say. Some are getting 10 to 1 or even 12 to 1. While others may only get a 2 to 1 or on rare occasion 1 to 1.

Early spring, late spring, summer, fall, have been the best. Winter is good if you make a REALLY good offer.

To see one of the really good responses I've got in my own company, see the video at http://www.hitmanadvertising.com/EDDMbasics Fast forward to 22:17.

I don't like % off too much. One reason is that everyone else does it. Second reason is you are reducing your profit margin from the start.

Buy one get one has done so-so. The best is to give away extra cleaning freebies. Charge regular price, but give away extras like free tile cleaning, rug cleaned, etc. to cross sell and get higher job tickets.

Three sequence and third is the charm? Yes, to some extent. The second mailer always gets more coming in. The third does pretty good too.

The mailer has always been best when it hits the home Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday.

If the owner is going to be on the truck, I've found it's usually better to put a picture of the owner with the impression that he is directly involved in the company. It's not necessary to make it look like it's a bigger company.

Stanley isn't doing EDDM in my area. Anyone else seen Stantley or other franchises do EDDM?

 

[hogjowl]

Marcating is Fatcat marketing.

Invitation only and Yocum approved.

 

[billyeadon]

I haven't seen SS do it, but I have seen Chem Dry do some very nice pieces. They always max out the size and make it out of very heavy stock. The piece almost falls out of the mail.

Average return? It does vary depending on the offer, time of year, etc. But an average of 4 to 1 return I'd say. Some are getting 10 to 1 or even 12 to 1. While others may only get a 2 to 1 or on rare occasion 1 to 1.

Early spring, late spring, summer, fall, have been the best. Winter is good if you make a REALLY good offer.

To see one of the really good responses I've got in my own company, see the video at http://www.hitmanadvertising.com/EDDMbasics Fast forward to 22:17.

I don't like % off too much. One reason is that everyone else does it. Second reason is you are reducing your profit margin from the start.

Buy one get one has done so-so. The best is to give away extra cleaning freebies. Charge regular price, but give away extras like free tile cleaning, rug cleaned, etc. to cross sell and get higher job tickets.

Three sequence and third is the charm? Yes, to some extent. The second mailer always gets more coming in. The third does pretty good too

The mailer has always been best when it hits the home Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday.

If the owner is going to be on the truck, I've found it's usually better to put a picture of the owner with the impression that he is directly involved in the company. It's not necessary to make it look like it's a bigger company.

Stanley isn't doing EDDM in my area. Anyone else seen Stantley or other franchises do EDDM?

 

[Beeks]

I haven't seen SS do it, but I have seen Chem Dry do some very nice pieces. They always max out the size and make it out of very heavy stock. The piece almost falls out of the mail.

we battle with stanley in the val pak, but not seen them do any EDDM

 

[Royal Man]

we battle with stanley in the val pak, but not seen them do any EDDM

I'm sure they could be doing EDDM and you would never know it.

 

[Beeks]

I'm sure they could be doing EDDM and you would never know it.

very true

 

[TomKing]

The point of EDDM is not the ease and low cost per 1000 to reach a certain market.

The point to this program needs to be evaluated by asking a few questions
1. How much has the author of any program grown the authors business in the last year, 3 years, 5 years?
If they tell you they not working on this or they are transitioning to selling the program raise the red flags.

2. How long ago where these marketing tools developed?
I live in Indy the home of Bane Clene I can get you some really sharp 1970's stuff if you like. They once where the industry leader and now can barely run 1.5 trucks. You go to the office and it is like you went back in time. The principles are the same but the mediums changes.

3. Ask the author for 4 people who have used this program or service in the last 12-18 months

Ask the following questions of each of the referrals
What was your count you mailed to? how many thousand?
What was the demographic in these areas? Average household income. Average home price.
What was the offer?
What was your return per 1000?
What was your average job?
What was your return on the cost?
3to1 covers your cost no profit and for some you could lose money
4to1 cover basic overhead
5to1 starts making me money
7to1 or better lets me do some stuff and send my kids to college

If these people do not know this stuff one of two things the implementation coaching was not that strong or the program may not work every where.

This is not a endorsement or condemnation of John. He seems to be a nice guys and tries hard to help. I am sure we would have much to talk about if I had the privilege of picking his brain.

I interviewed a industry guru not John for some private coaching about 15 months ago. Ask for 4 referrals. Called all 4 asked two questions.
1. in 10's of thousands how much did your business increase?
2. in 10's of thousands how much more did you personally make?

All 4 could not answer those questions. They said they could not track it.

ISN'T THIS THE POINT MAKE ME MORE MONEY!!!! INCREASE MY PROFIT

I kept my money and that guru is off selling new stuff as a life long expert.

Don't pay for all these programs. I had the money a few years back and I have a shelf full of crap that is 10-15 years old.

Find someone through the boards or by asking someone like Bill Yeadon of Steve T who you could connect with.

Connect with that person and set up a mentor relationship. Spend the money to fly that person out for 2 days or go see them.

Don't go posting what you learn from that person all over the boards. You will be surprised what people will tell you when they find out you can keep your mouth shut.

The SFS team did that for me. Ken, Richard, Ivan, Joe, Mike, Bill and Steve have all been sounding boards to help our company develop.

I am in the process of setting up a new relationship to help take us to the next level. Mentors not programs. Mentors are the silver bullet.

The only program I would pay for is SFS. If I can buy another TM in 2014 I will be shaking those boys down for 2 seats in Tampa 2015.

They do a few product highlights between speakers but no shake down for a $1500 binder, coaching club, online classes or some conference call series.

If I could I would be in a SFS every year. It is a great week and worth every bit of time and money you spend. I still get in my SFS binders once or twice a year.

 

[johnbraun]

Tom King, some good advice there. And while I've heard SFS is a great class to attend (I may even go one day), I think you're off base with saying to invest in only SFS. But maybe that's the only thing that has personally helped you.

You shouldn't get all your education in one place. Obviously it's no big surprise I would say that.

But what we've always tried to do in Hitman is be more of an actual advertising "agency" of sorts. No, we don't typically buy media for clients. But we do more than just give out manuals, training, a few webinars and throw you out in the market place. We actually do a lot of the copywriting and design work for many of our clients. I've found many guys don't have the time or skills to do this. And while we do training on advertising and internet marketing, we also do part of it for our clients.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket either, you just might following the wrong rabbit.

Read, listen, attend as much as you can, for both technical and marketing training.

Attend all you can afford "that has value to you", is it cheaper to buy books, cd's to read & listen....maybe? But it might be faster and easier to pay a mentor or consultant. It depends on your financial situation.

While there is always something of value to gain from every guru, if your town only has a hand full of high end clients it doesn't make sense for you to devise a strategy to grow your business around the high end just because it worked well for someone else.

 

[Shane Deubell]

Maybe but john you didn't answer any of tom's questions.

 

[Deleted member 51539]

The Indianapolis marketing forum loves EDDM.

You losers need to keep up with the times.

I've been banned from that site...

My IP has been flagged resulting in painfully slow loading times...

 

[hogjowl]

They must have learned that from Rob.

 

[TomKing]

John
Name another program a owner in this industry can go to that the sponsor does not have a bunch of programs and materials they will sell you at the end of the training?

SFS gives you a week to work on your business not in it. That is why I would go often.

Tom King, some good advice there. And while I've heard SFS is a great class to attend (I may even go one day), I think you're off base with saying to invest in only SFS. But maybe that's the only thing that has personally helped you.

You shouldn't get all your education in one place. Obviously it's no big surprise I would say that.

But what we've always tried to do in Hitman is be more of an actual advertising "agency" of sorts. No, we don't typically buy media for clients. But we do more than just give out manuals, training, a few webinars and throw you out in the market place. We actually do a lot of the copywriting and design work for many of our clients. I've found many guys don't have the time or skills to do this. And while we do training on advertising and internet marketing, we also do part of it for our clients.

 

[TomKing]

Carpet Guy
Fill out your profile and use a real name and location and you might do better here.

I've been banned from that site...

My IP has been flagged resulting in painfully slow loading times...

 

[Torrey Express]

I've heard good things about hit man. Never tried his stuff personally, but I'd have to think his stuff is good, being around the block for so long.

Eddm is still new to me. I wouldn't call myself experienced until I do it for well over a full consecutive year to track season fluctuations, try multiple ad copy and layout designs, tweak demographics, and can reflect over a large picture of tens of thousands maybe even 100k mails. Again, that's probably were hitman takes the lead.

I have zero plans on ever having anything for sale. If I can "crack the code" to a high yielding campaign, I'd rather just duplicate it in my own company.

Also a counterpoint to worrying about making it an extremely high roi would be that if you could make a campaign that harvests the best clients even at a zero loss, you'll have gained quality clients for the long term. I don't see that happening with a high discount price point ad. And I think that's were a lot of us chicken out. We feel scared and desperate which will come from just a lack of experience and education in a area and we resort to the same old thing we see everyone else do.

I will say this though. My friend ran a eddm that I thought look way to wordy, had no graphics at all and said none of the normal things a cc says, and he sold 3 rooms, hall and staircase for 299.00. The response rate was much lower than if it would have been a much more normal ad like 3 rooms for 99.00 or in some cases way less than that. But it was a positive roi and those will be quality customers long term instead of just the groupon junkies.

It gets exhausting to just take blind opinions online like "eddm doesn't work" or does work.. Everything needs tested.

PS. SFS was amazing and I highly recommend it.

 

[Mikey P]

Torrey, YOU are wasting your time at SlushieFest.


Trade your plane ticket for one to San Jose.

 

[Torrey Express]

Torrey, YOU are wasting your time at SlushieFest.


Trade your plane ticket for one to San Jose.

I'll be fair and honest in review about it once I return.

I'd love to be able to hear the speakers at MF10, just a long trip for a rug scrubber like me. Bring one to Indy and I'd love to attend.

 

[Mikey P]

long trip? it's 45 minutes more than Vegas.


Their speaker/presentations don't hold a candle.

 

[Mikey P]

You should be sending Kip and Fence to ICE and you and eyeball (The Real Cleaners) should be at MF.


IMO, that is.


I'll even waive your entry fees.

 

[hogjowl]

John 16:2

 

[Mikey P]

oh I know that one..


And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh,speak to them on the phone or via private message and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.

 

[Shane Deubell]

I've heard good things about hit man. Never tried his stuff personally, but I'd have to think his stuff is good, being around the block for so long.

Eddm is still new to me. I wouldn't call myself experienced until I do it for well over a full consecutive year to track season fluctuations, try multiple ad copy and layout designs, tweak demographics, and can reflect over a large picture of tens of thousands maybe even 100k mails. Again, that's probably were hitman takes the lead.

I have zero plans on ever having anything for sale. If I can "crack the code" to a high yielding campaign, I'd rather just duplicate it in my own company.

Also a counterpoint to worrying about making it an extremely high roi would be that if you could make a campaign that harvests the best clients even at a zero loss, you'll have gained quality clients for the long term. I don't see that happening with a high discount price point ad. And I think that's were a lot of us chicken out. We feel scared and desperate which will come from just a lack of experience and education in a area and we resort to the same old thing we see everyone else do.

I will say this though. My friend ran a eddm that I thought look way to wordy, had no graphics at all and said none of the normal things a cc says, and he sold 3 rooms, hall and staircase for 299.00. The response rate was much lower than if it would have been a much more normal ad like 3 rooms for 99.00 or in some cases way less than that. But it was a positive roi and those will be quality customers long term instead of just the groupon junkies.

It gets exhausting to just take blind opinions online like "eddm doesn't work" or does work.. Everything needs tested.

PS. SFS was amazing and I highly recommend it.

Pretty much how it played out for me, we ended up with a nice database of repeat tile/grout customers. These are nice tickets for us.

The benefit is you can super target and stay in tight geographic routes. The downside is its expensive!
$150 jobs is not going to cut it in my experience, so you are on right path.

Have to warn you though when you add employees advertising campaigns at a "zero loss" is not good enough.

 

[Kipp]

I actually Google'd "Marcating" thinking you learned a new word.


I'm just giddy in anticipation to find out what Kip, Eyeball, Torrey and Fencepost are going to be selling..

You might be waiting a while for that one I think, I have no intention on monetizing off cleaners with what is already public knowledge just because I "repackage" it for the industry. The only reason I excepted the invitation to join these guys was an opportunity to really help guys in this industry reach their true potential. I was already doing that (to and extent) at TMF, however the culture was difficult to work in, and quite frankly it sucked me in and my behavior began mirroring the culture...as it often does with all of us. I had over 8,500 posts invested so I figured why not do it somewhere that we could put our arms around the culture and create a focus on what should really be important to cleaners, growing themselves and their businesses.

I simply what to help those that I can with their goals and sales skills, for me to monetize off that would really be difficult to do...well in a win-win situation it would be, and that's always what I look for win-win. My knowledge in goal setting and sales skills is nothing new, no magic bullet, infact it's based on information that has been around for a very long time. The benefit with me is because I did spend a couple years in the cleaning industry I have a unique perspective on how to apply it directly to this industry...much like the guys at SFS. In fact most of what I hear Steve T post aligns directly with what I have learned over the years as well.

I by no means think I am a guru or a "who says" in the industry, really all I am is a guy who had some quick success by taking knowledge I had outside the industry and applying to the cleaning industry. I guess it sounds a little hard to believe that I would donate my time for people I don't know...I guess it's just a desire in me to help others. When I first joined these forums I didn't know what "normal" was, probably why I got my head bitten off when I shared what I had done in my first and second year in business...simply not possible according to most.

I've learned over the years to watch what a man does vs what a man says as it always tells you the truth. (proven true in this whole forum ordeal) We all know who Mikey is, and that's what people like about you...real deal, that's not the case with some others. I am okay with being judged by the same standards. Watch what I do over time and see if it doesn't align with what I have said above.

Best regards to You and the Mikey members,

Kip Stoltzfus

PS as it relates to the subject of this thread I never did EDDM in this industry. I will tell you that I did alot of direct mail when I owned my pizza franchises and did pretty well with it. Back in the 90's though it was much more difficult than today. I had my own custom printer for addressing, it printed and sorted by carrier routes. I was mailing about 10-20K pieces a month for two stores and got 2-4% response most of the time...of course in that business your ticket is much lower (even a 2-4% response wasn't highly profitable) and you always have more people eating than cleaning lol.

Personally I think a guy could take almost any marketing median and make it successful if he really "dove" into it. I think the biggest mistake guys make is not mastering any one marketing median...instead they just "dabble" in several...little effort = little results. I by no means am a marketing expert, however once I get a prospect in front of me watch out I am flat out unstoppable.

 

[Deleted member 51539]

You might be waiting a while for that one I think, I have no intention on monetizing off cleaners with what is already public knowledge just because I "repackage" it for the industry.

He says this now... just remember Bandwidth Cost Money...

 

[FB19087]

When I first joined these forums I didn't know what "normal" was, probably why I got my head bitten off when I shared what I had done in my first and second year in business...simply not possible according to most..

Nah...I'm pretty sure its is because what you were saying didn't match what could easily be verified.....

http://mikeysboard.com/forum/showthread.php?261364-Welcome-1KaDay!

 

[Kipp]

Nah...I'm pretty sure its is because what you were saying didn't match what could easily be verified.....

http://mikeysboard.com/forum/showthread.php?261364-Welcome-1KaDay!

Come on now is that anyway to treat a supportive member?

 

[FB19087]

I'll send you $5............